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Dreamfall Chapters broke my heart


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#61 Selky

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 18:29

It broke my heart too. I admit, I didn't care much for Zoe or Kian by the end, or even the plot for that matter (blah blah Undreaming blah blah silver spear of McGuffin), but I'm glad I played this game to see what happened to April. It still hurts to think about even half a year later. I know that ultimately it's a happy ending for her due to being reborn as Saga, but at the same time I can't forget that April died as a miserable and broken person. As soon as I met her again in Dreamfall I hoped she would be saved. Realizing how far gone she was and then having to see her die while she was at her lowest point was awful. Seeing her that final time, at peace and ready to move on with her best friend at her side was even more heartbreaking, even though I appreciate the closure. I don't think I'll ever really "accept" what happened to April Ryan, but for that same reason I'll never forget it. I'll always wonder if there was something more to April's past, what happened to her between the first two games, if there was some other way that she could have been saved.

 

I consider it brave of Ragnar & co to take her in the direction they did and I'm grateful for that. It hurt a lot but I wouldn't have it any other way. Her journey was very emotional for me and she'll always be a character close to my heart.


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#62 TheyCallMeTJ

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 15:37

 

 

 

 

I just finished Dreamfall Chapters yesterday and had to make an account to get this off my chest (so, hi!)

(PS Gold star if you read the whole thing. I thank you from the bottom of my broken heart)

 

 

 

Sorry very late comment but I dont visit here much since completing Chapters last year on its final episode release but I Just read your post and loved your eloquent thoughts on it.   I felt exactly the same way.

 

For me, April character was the heart of the whole saga including Dreamfall, despite Zoe being the star of the dreamfall sub-saga.  And so with April's death, the heart of the saga was gone.   I loved playing through Chapters but it wasnt what I cried out for for eight years after playing Dreamfall!

 

I felt rather empty after completing Dreamfall Chapters.  Saga was a lovely tease until she grew up and became this annoying "the path is already set" nonsense.  It was clear to me that the conclusion amalgamated a super condensed version of The Longest Journey Home (which, I think developers assume will never happen) and made Saga a substitute for April Ryan which for me as a fan of April Ryan/Sarah Hamiltion is unacceptable! 

 

My thoughts arent anywhere as eloquent as yours but thanks for your post which gives me an opportunity to vent my own, in a more crass way!

 

BUT I still hold out hope for The Longest Journey Home, the once promised conclusion of April Ryan's journey.  Only thing is, Sarah Hamilton might not be strong enough to voice her given her illnesses and cancer that she is still recovering from.

 

BTW I appreciate we have Dreamfall Chapters in the first place as I know this genre is a difficult niche genre for small game developer teams to make money from.  So I support whatever profitable route they take and perhaps hopefully, we get TLJ despite the super rushed wrap up of the  whole saga in Dreamfall Chapters.

 

Oh and thanks for the Gold Star...it was a pleasure to read the whole thing :D


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#63 the red of the kin

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 08:26

Saga was a lovely tease until she grew up and became this annoying "the path is already set" nonsense. 

 

This

it's gold!

(and I agree XD)


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#64 Hellegennes

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 17:24

That specific aspect annoyed me too. Ragnar took one line Saga says in TLJ and turned it into manifesto (this is how the story goes and we cannot change that now). That was a plot convenience that added to the fairytale-like feel of TLJ. But in DFC it simply becomes lazy writing.



#65 Indrid Cold

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 00:35

That specific aspect annoyed me too. Ragnar took one line Saga says in TLJ and turned it into manifesto (this is how the story goes and we cannot change that now). That was a plot convenience that added to the fairytale-like feel of TLJ. But in DFC it simply becomes lazy writing.

It's different than that, for me. In TLJ, it seemed it was only said because April's story was in Lady Alvane's past, so she simply remembered it. "That's how the story goes" as in "That's what happened, and we're in a stable time loop." Nothing fairytale-like about it, only some sort of time travel (although even then I understood that April hadn't gone through time, but simply "outside time").

 

In DFC, however, there's no past self of Saga who experienced the same events from another viewpoint (at least as far as we know). She knew what would happen because of a "prophecy". Very different than the explanation in TLJ.

 

It may seem like we're in agreement, but I actually think we're not. :) You thought it was "fairytale-like" in TLJ, and "lazy writing" in DFC. I thought it was sci-fi and meta in TLJ (time is something you can exit), but fairy-tale like in DFC (there's something bigger than us at work here, something we're incapable of understanding).


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#66 Vainamoinen

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 16:55

I also don't think "lazy writing" was involved here.

 

I thought of Saga's vocation as taking deterministic time travel / the causal loop and adding to it mechanics of storytelling. That opens up some fairly interesting prospects. Implacable determinism is all too often a tired old surprise revelation to the one-off time traveler at the end of the movie. What Saga is doing could be more complex. For example, "That's how the story goes" doesn't necessarily mean "That's how it will be in real life". Saga could have failed, she's evidently afraid of failure, and I'm curious to know what would have happened if she did fail. Had Kian died, it would have been a crappy story without closure. That's not "how the story goes", eh? But it was still a possibility for Saga.

 

The Longest Journey saga was always about storytelling, evidently. Now there seems to be an organisation or entity who crafts stories on the basis of real life, and employs helpers to make her stories come into being – seemingly aiming for a thrilling ride, a happy ending and narrative coherence – whatever the cost to the actors in the story.

 

Saga's story and actual character arc, the one we haven't yet witnessed, may center on how she got into the service of said entity, what promises her work held for her, and what written storytelling laws she eventually had to infringe upon.

 

But do give me a minute to chew on that concept a little more.


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#67 Hellegennes

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 21:39

This doesn't quite work for me. Saga knew exactly what she had to do, down to the last detail. That's veeeery different from a simple prophecy (or a complex one, for that matter). Prophecies are not like that. And we do know that prophecies in the TLJ universe are certainly vague enough. April fulfills quite a few herself, but without knowing exactly what to do, even when she knew she had to fulfill a prophecy.

 

Having Saga know exactly what to do, when to do it and how much time she had available, makes it ultra-super-convenient for the plot but not much sense. I am sure Ragnar has an answer for that, but answers outside the original material are meaningless, especially if they are provided in order to explain plotholes and plot conveniences.



#68 ChrisR

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 05:11

Saga and her family rather brought many new mysteries rather than explained something, which is very frustrating since it's supposed to be a finished story.

#69 Vainamoinen

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:23

Of course Hellegennes is correct. A "prophecy" is a different thing entirely. Saga doesn't execute what's been foretold like a robot, she performs what's been written. And written only ever means "great narrative if it ends up going that way".
 
So she's the only actor in improv theatre who has a script, everything can still turn out hilariously wrong.
 
Or or or maybe ... she's GM'ing with someone else's notes, with a bunch of unruly players who won't take her railroading.
 
Or maybe it's like a flash mob: Everything's in sync, you know all your steps exactly, and you're trying to create something wonderful yet can never know whether your impact on the affected people will really be a positive one.
 
Either way, interesting prospects! :D

 

Saga and her family rather brought many new mysteries rather than explained something, which is very frustrating since it's supposed to be a finished story.


From the earliest episodes on, we suspected that the interludes would be kept entirely separate from the rest of the story with only a small meeting at the end. And we suspected that because we assumed (and, I think, were actually told...?) that Saga would have a role to play in the now-certainly-cancelled The Longest Journey Home. So when she did all that stuff in Book Five, especially the whole end sequence stuff, I was more than a bit baffeled. However, her impact on the Dreamer Cycle and the problems raised therein remains marginal, and most of the new mysteries raised were prime material for what The Longest Journey home was described as.
 
In what way was April 'reincarnated' as Saga? In what way did Saga investigate her previous life? In what way did this experience change Saga? Was it the catalyst for the decision to unite the worlds?
 
In short, the interlude stuff works great as a TLJH prelude. With the cancellation of TLJH, however...
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#70 Edreamer Jamil

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:44

With the cancellation of TLJH, however...

 

Bare in mind the relatively adjusted stance on and discussion of TLJH by RTG in the recent TLJ stream as per my post here

At the least it suspends the finality of TLJH not happening.

Whatever happens it won't be for quite some time though.


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#71 Hellegennes

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 00:38

Well, nothing CAN be final no matter what we talk about. But this barely means that Ragnar and his team have an interest in creating TLJH. They are just saying that they might reconsider it, 5 or 10 years from now. Unless of course there's pressure to go back to the TLJ saga via massive sales, which I don't think is very likely.



#72 Hellegennes

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 00:47

So she's the only actor in improv theatre who has a script, everything can still turn out hilariously wrong.

 

Maybe. I got the same feeling when I was playing the game, because Saga doesn't act nonchalant about it; she really does believe that everything can go wrong if she doesn't act her part correctly.

 

However, in the end there's not even a small hiccup, as far as we can tell, which sort of negates the tension and the notion -you described- itself. If she merely acts upon a written script, we certainly can't tell because everything goes as planned.


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#73 the red of the kin

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 17:39

Maybe. I got the same feeling when I was playing the game, because Saga doesn't act nonchalant about it; she really does believe that everything can go wrong if she doesn't act her part correctly.

However, in the end there's not even a small hiccup, as far as we can tell, which sort of negates the tension and the notion -you described- itself. If she merely acts upon a written script, we certainly can't tell because everything goes as planned.


That's the problem which arises when you meddle with higher powers that control time and events. You either accept the total loss of feee will or you keep on believing something can deviate from a predetermined path...or you can change it yourself. But the latter automatically negates the first one...simply because anyone could then write a book of events and claim he/she orchestrated all events in the future...so as long as everyone follows the book and you don't deviate then its purpose will be fulfilled.

IF YOU'RE A GHOST.......JUST LEAVE ME BE!


#74 magic88889

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 18:18

If I remember right from Saga's comments, her actions only open the door for events to happen.  It was still up to Zoe and Ferdows to figure out how to shut the machine down.  From her comments I got the feeling that she didn't really know what would happen after she opened the shift, only that if creation was to be given a chance to be saved, she had to be there to do that. 

 

Saga could still choose to not follow the story.  Just as Zoe or Ferdows could fail to figure things out.



#75 Vainamoinen

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 08:42

I still suspect she didn't "follow the story". Maybe in the original story, the funny sidekick dies... seems like it. :ph34r:


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#76 LootHunter

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 11:46

In what way did Saga investigate her previous life?

That's an easy one. She visited TLJ story by drawing pictures and going through the portal that they created (Interlude 2, if I'm not mistaken).



#77 the red of the kin

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 15:18

I think she followed the story thoroughly for what concerns her role. She is indeed but a pawn in the bigger game but, unlike April, she knows she is and she kmows exactly what to do to fulfill her part. Not only that. she also knows what will happen after Zoe and Kian succeed.

IF YOU'RE A GHOST.......JUST LEAVE ME BE!





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