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Svalbard Seed Vault breached because global warming... WTF?


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#1 Vainamoinen

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 21:15

https://www.theguard...elts?CMP=twt_gu

 

Ooookay. Maybe it wasn't the brightest idea to put the Seed Vault so close to the shore line?!?

 

For fuck's sake.


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#2 Lee-m

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 22:23

Global warming is a hoax. This is fake news.

...some one just left a tap on or something.


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#3 Happy Tree

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 08:49

A vault built to hold seeds safe from natural disasters "indefinitely" got compromised in 9 years. Nature 1 - Man 0


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#4 Vainamoinen

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 09:45

A vault built to hold seeds safe from natural disasters "indefinitely" got compromised in 9 years. Nature 1 - Man 0

 

Right? It's as if "natural disasters" didn't include global warming. :mellow:


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#5 Mr Moo

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:48

As far as I know, the vault is deep in the mountain, and the entrance isn't close to the shoreline. But they didn't design proper draining systems for melting permafrost water, as it supposedly would never melt. Nevertheless, water didn't enter the main vault, the entrance tunnel was flooded. They did actually properly seal the main vault.

 

It's kind of like Titanic not needing life rafts as it couldn't sink. You should plan for all possible disasters. Water coming from outside of the vault in a place like that shouldn't be unexpected. Disaster planning 101?


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#6 Olstyle

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 11:55

It all sounds a bit like "hey we do this for the other countries, but we ourselves will never need it"
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#7 mrKnask

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 12:49

You can take a virtual tour here if you are curious on how it looks like:https://www.croptrus...eractive-visit/
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#8 Vainamoinen

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 12:55

Global warming is a hoax. This is fake news.

...some one just left a tap on or something.

 

I mean, let's be honest. If temperatures really were so low, why would that water freeze again in the entrance corridor? That makes no sense! It's all obviously a laughably obvious hoax by the Chinese government, just like the US Chief Obstructor of Justice has said. CONSPIRACY!! :P


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#9 Lee-m

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 15:57

I mean, let's be honest. If temperatures really were so low, why would that water freeze again in the entrance corridor? That makes no sense! It's all obviously a laughably obvious hoax by the Chinese government, just like the US Chief Obstructor of Justice has said. CONSPIRACY!! :P

Indeed. There are plenty of you tube videos that tell us the truth !



#10 Teller

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 03:05

I'm curious, how much of an emergency state do we need to be in for them to use the seeds?  I mean if there's no plants on the surface to feed us, likely no plants will grow.  People would probably starve before the surface could be replanted.  So unless they're planning on building a huge underground farming system, I'm not sure I understand the point.  Or maybe they can be used for teraforming another planet?


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#11 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 04:53

Yeah, I think the fact that the vault itself is fine is something that's being overlooked in a lot of the talk I'm seeing. Because that part's usually buried a few paragraphs down in the articles. Not that I'm trying to minimize this or anything. But... I feel like the fact that the vault is fine and the seeds are safe is important to note. I'm curious to see what they do now that this has happened, though... :/ 

 

 

I'm curious, how much of an emergency state do we need to be in for them to use the seeds?  I mean if there's no plants on the surface to feed us, likely no plants will grow.  People would probably starve before the surface could be replanted.  So unless they're planning on building a huge underground farming system, I'm not sure I understand the point.  Or maybe they can be used for teraforming another planet?

 

Right, so... ...The Seed Vault isn't just a Seed Vault so much as it's a Seed Bank. So. Depositors put in samples of seeds. They are stored there. As of right now, only the depositors can take the seeds out. So. It's less of a "In Case Of Global Emergency: Break Glass" and more a project to attempt to project crop diversity. So... It's not necessarily going to save anyone if globally the conditions become so dire we can't get like anything to grow. But if particular types of crops start to die out, someone basically has a backup stash to prevent utter extinction, etc. (And Syria already made the first withdrawal from Svalbard.) 

 

...If something mega catastrophic happened, it's possible that we'd end up in a situation where maybe the original depositors are gone and we need those seeds, but that's not the main idea or goal of the project, from my understanding. 

 

Though. If the vault gets compromised before anyone even attempts to make a withdrawal none of it really matters, I guess. 

 

 

Video a YouTube channel I watch did at Svalbard if anyone is interested in learning more / actually seeing the vault.  

 


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#12 Vainamoinen

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 10:01

I'm not sure what 'compromised' even means in this context. I mean, water getting to the seeds would probably be bad, but... a tad less than minus 18°C shouldn't be a deal breaker, no?

Video a YouTube channel I watch did at Svalbard


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#13 Dmm

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 10:55

According to what I have read there are at least 1750 seed banks scattered around the world, but this is the only backup bank. While you don't need many back up banks, you would think there would be at least a couple more in case one of the sites is struck with a major catastrophe.


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#14 Lee-m

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 12:46

I'm curious, how much of an emergency state do we need to be in for them to use the seeds?

One country has made a withdrawal of seeds as far as I know. I just can't remember who it was. Doesnt have to be post apocalypse only to make use of it.
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#15 Dmm

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 15:01

One country has made a withdrawal of seeds as far as I know. I just can't remember who it was.

. (And Syria already made the first withdrawal from Svalbard.)


#16 Lee-m

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 15:37

 

One country has made a withdrawal of seeds as far as I know. I just can't remember who it was.

. (And Syria already made the first withdrawal from Svalbard.)

 

And now I know :)



#17 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 17:53

I'm not sure what 'compromised' even means in this context. I mean, water getting to the seeds would probably be bad, but... a tad less than minus 18°C shouldn't be a deal breaker, no?

 

I'm not sure either, to be quite honest with you. I was mostly thinking "Something that results in the actual seeds getting effed." Based on what I know about seeds, slight temperature shifts shouldn't be a huge deal...? I mean. Seeds are generally hearty by design. ...Though to an extent it may also depend on the seeds. (If you want to read up on an interesting research on that subject, look up Beal’s Seed Viability Experiment.) 

 

Though based on what I could see in the video above, I'm a bit unsure about water damage, too. I mean. it looks like some of the seeds are more or less just sitting in cardboard boxes, but the box they opened appeared to have many of seeds in like vacuum sealed packs. Those would be waterproof. The little vials or whatever, probably not so much (though I wonder if packaging may change going forward). ...Though even then, if the vault floods and freezes, getting to the seeds would be the issue. 

 

In the vein of "suck a x place" this grammar is now obligatory for every video introduction on this forum thanks all

 

...You're welcome? <<; 

 

According to what I have read there are at least 1750 seed banks scattered around the world, but this is the only backup bank. While you don't need many back up banks, you would think there would be at least a couple more in case one of the sites is struck with a major catastrophe.

 

Yeah. That's a good point.

 

I think the issue is finding a good location and then, you know, funding it. Svalbard is kind of perfect for this sort of thing. Though I do wonder if now that Syria has effectively given us a proof of concept (i.e. they did successfully withdraw seeds, used them for what they needed, and then redeposited some seeds earlier this year) ...and then this flooding business... maybe someone will start work on a second one. Because yeah. Agreed. 


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#18 Teller

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 17:58

Thanks all, very informative.  This is actually the first I've heard of the seedbanks.  So, good to know.


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